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How should one best interpret the difference between "dasselbe" and "das Gleiche" ? When should one use one or the other?

Is it correct that "dasselbe" is appropriate for concrete things, and "das Gleiche" is for the abstract idea? Is there much more to it?

I have trouble for instance, drawing the line between phrases like:

"Wir wollten alle das Gleiche."

and

"Er sagt in jeder Vorlesung dasselbe."

both of which are examples from my dictionary (so I assume they are correct) and both of which seem to refer to the same (dasselbe/das Gleiche??) thing...

Your help is appreciated!

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Your examples are fringe cases. For objects you can touch, the distinction is simple: Das selbe means one and the same instance of something, das gleiche means a different, but similar copy. Now, can you say the same word twice, or is it a different instance, a copy of the same word? It depends on what aspect of a word you're looking at. Hard to decide, and I'd rather get used to saying das gleiche, just to avoid accidentally saying das selbe when such a strong meaning wasn't intended. This mistake is made often even by native speakers. – fzwo May 30 '11 at 8:57

6 Answers

up vote 17 down vote

There is a difference:

Ich trage das gleiche Kleid wie Maria.

Maria and I are physically wearing two different dresses, but they are the same kind and design.

Ich trage dasselbe Kleid, das ich bei meinem Geburtstag anhatte.

I am wearing the same dress. It's physically the same item.

"Das gleiche" is "the same", with regards to its qualities.

"Dasselbe" is physically the same item.

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That means, you can never say/mean/think/write "dasselbe" as someone else but only "das Gleiche"? – Florian Peschka May 30 '11 at 8:40
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@ApoY2k well, it's a question of philosophy: Do you think two instances of one and the same thought are perfect twins, or do you think there is only one concept for the thought, and everyone thinking it actually thinks the same thought, as if they share a mind? I think it boils down to whether you think in terms of instances or prototypes (objects and classes, if you know object-oriented programming). If people wear das selbe Kleid, they are sharing it. – fzwo May 30 '11 at 8:52
@ApoY2k In this exact context regarding a dress, no, unless that person sold or lent you that dress to wear :) – takrl Jul 14 '11 at 8:03
up vote 4 down vote

"Dasselbe" is used when you're referring to the exact same object, whereas "das Gleiche" is only used if there are multiple different objects of identical form or nature.

When it comes to more abstract terms like in your first example, I assume it would be okay to use "dasselbe" as well as "das Gleiche", but not if it refers to material objects.

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up vote 4 down vote

Die Sendung mit der Maus covered this topic a few years ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hePMxBhJK3E

It's basically the same as teylyn's answer, but a great visualization.

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up vote 3 down vote

Das Gleiche

means equality (instance of the same abstract class)

dasselbe

means identity in a mathematical sense.

Practical usage in German is not 100% correct and consistent.
Even Germans have difficulties here and I'm forced to remember the rules because my intuition is uncertain.

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up vote 3 down vote

To remember the difference between "das Gleiche" und "dasselbe", you could use the german saying

Sie gleichen sich wie ein Ei dem anderen

Two eggs look identically, so "das Gleiche" means "looks like but is not the same". As a consequence, "dasselbe" means "is the same instance of an item".

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+1 for bringing in an idiom to help memorizing – Samuel Herzog Jun 1 '11 at 2:41
up vote 3 down vote

I sometimes think the Java programming language was created by Germans, because it makes the exact same distinction as the German language:

todaysLunch.equals(yesterdaysLunch) =~ Es gibt heute zum Mitagessen schon wieder das gleiche wie gestern

Translation: two Objects are semantically or by other (defined or implicit) rules equivalent, without actually being physically the same Object.

thisFly==theFlyThatsBeenBotheringMeAllDay =~ Das ist die selbe Fliege, die mich schon den ganzen Tag nervt.

Translation: two different ways of referring to the same physical Entity.

Obviously this distinction only makes sense for entities that have some kind of physical manifestation.

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Most languages distinguish between identity and equality like that, methinks. – Tim N May 30 '11 at 8:37
@Tim would that be natural or programming languages? Could you provide examples? – Sean Patrick Floyd May 30 '11 at 8:46
@Sean: Programming. E.g. eq? vs. equal? in Scheme. – Tim N May 30 '11 at 8:56
This is a concept known to all (I think) object-oriented languages, not only Java. You have a class "Car", and instances of it. Now, there are probably two visually indistinguishable blue VW Golf VI out there - they are equal (let's ignore number plates for the sake of argument). But they're not the same, and the owner of you Golf's "twin" won't be happy if you just use his car instead of yours, claiming "but it's the same!". – fzwo May 30 '11 at 9:01
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@Sean Python has an "is" operator for "dasselbe" and "==" for "das Gleiche". ;-) – Jürgen A. Erhard May 30 '11 at 10:11
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