"Das ist nicht fair"

Question

I was browsing the comments in a recent discussion and was struck by the use of English expressions by native German correspondents. One asked (in German) why his answer got a "downvote", and the other responded "it wasn't me" before continuing in German. To which the first replied (in German) concluding with the phrase "das ist nicht fair".

"Downvote" is a fairly obvious adaptation. I remember another discussion on the verb "like" in the context of its Facebook usage: whether the past participle should be "geliked" or "geliken". But I'm interested in people's opinions about the other two expressions in this little exchange: "it wasn't me", and "das is nicht fair".

I hardly consider it a weakness of the German language that it can incorporate these kinds of expressions: quite the contrary. But I wonder how native speakers hear usages of this sort, and whether there are perhaps equally good "German" words which could convey the same nuance.

Although I am putting the question in English, I enjoy reading responses in either language.

Answer 1

Ich hab im IDS-Korpus (Cosmas II) eine kurze Recherche gemacht mit einer schnellen Auswertung; für eine wissenschaftlichere Auswertung habe ich momentan leider keine Zeit.

Zwei Tendenzen sind aber recht eindeutig, was die Phrase »Das ist nicht fair« betrifft:

1. Im Verhältnis zu ihrem Gegenteil »Das ist fair« wird sie wesentlich frequenter verwendet (ca. 3:1).
2. Obwohl in relativ vielen Textsorten Fundstellen vorhanden sind, wird sie v. a. in Plenarprotokollen verwendet, was auf eine häufigere Verwendung in der gesprochenen Sprache hindeutet.

Die Kookurrenzanalyse ist statistisch unspezifisch geblieben, es lässt sich auf Datenbasis des Cosmas also kein spezifischer semantischer Kontext feststellen, in dem die Phrase vorwiegend verwendet wird, wenngleich ich rein gefühlsmäßig meinen Vorrednern beipflichten würde, dass sich gerade Wettkämpfe/Sport als Kontext anbieten – nur fehlt dafür eben der empirische Beweis.

Als Äquivalent würde ich v. a. folgende Phrase sehen:

Das ist nicht gerecht. / Das ist ungerecht.

(Die Ergebnisse sind ähnlich denen für »Das ist nicht fair«, wenngleich ca. doppelt so oft verwendet, Verhältnis 4:1)

Für das Adjektiv fair isoliert betrachtet bietet der Duden-Eintrag einen guten ersten Überblick.

Wie ebenfalls schon erwähnt, würde ich »It wasn’t me« auch als intertextuelle Anspielung ansehen, ohne Subtext/Anspielung/Referenz sind ganze englische Sätze in einem Posting eher selten, denke ich.

Answer 2

Duden lists a few alternatives (http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/fair).

But first, we should think about context. We're not talking about a game here with set rules, but of social interaction, in which a certain behaviour does not violate set rules, but rules seen as common, at least by one party. Given that, I see three fitting words:

gerecht
anständig
korrekt

"gerecht" means "just", I find the connotation to justice too strong. You basically say that someone acts "ungerecht".
"anständig" is better, but I think it is more fitting for rules which are widely accepted. To take the last cookie is "nicht anständig".
"korrekt" fits best, I think. "sich korrekt verhalten" means to be fair, to do the right thing.

However, fair is deeply rooted in the German language. Actually, when I read your post, at first I didn't realize what it was about...

Interesting: Duden lists an Old High German root for fair, "fagar"! So if someone knows how to shift it to New High German, we can have our own, native word ;-))

Answer 3

Using English words can be really popular among some people. Unfortunately, in some cases it can be exaggerated, especially in the form of 'Denglish' and if coming from the ones who try to come over as young and hip without necessarily being so, ie. managers and big corporations (Deutsche Bahn is a prime example). You might enjoy this article: http://www.thelocal.de/20140107/denglisch-ist-for-losers-german

Though German, I didn't grow up in Germany, and when I moved there to finish high school I did get some strange reactions for accidentally using the wrong words, or even just a different accent. So that said, I'm probably not the kind of native speaker you're looking for. If trying to use 'pure' German, I'd say "das ist nicht gerecht" (though fair sounds less harsh in my ears); "it wasn't me" is a pop reference (isn't it a song from a few years back?), so translating it to "ich war's nicht!" would loose half the message. "Liken" is actually a nice example, as "mögen" doesn't capture the facebook-meaning of the word - I don't think there is a good translation for that term (is there a German version of Facebook so anyone could check?).

Answer 4

"Das ist nicht fair" ist sicher in Ordnung für alle Deutschsprechenden; "fair" wird zum Beispiel im Zusammenhang mit Sport sehr häufig benutzt. So etwas wie "geliked" hört man in der Umgangssprache, aber bei mir erzeugt es ein schlechtes Gefühl im Magen.

Answer 5

@Marty: Das ist unfair! Das ist ungerecht! I think most negations are done by prefixing "un-" instead of using "nicht". At least when you use it as a normal statement.

If you read somewhere "Das ist nicht fair!", it is like putting emphasis on the last two words and saying them slower to make sure the other person understands it is really not fair.

The word "fair" itself is a perfectly normal german word you learn in Kindergarden, mostly in the context of someone or something being "unfair". :)

People over let's say 60 might use "ungerecht" instead of "unfair", but even they would understand it.

Answer 6

Im Google Ngram Viewer taucht das Wort "fair" zuerst 1732 auf, "unfair" sogar 1727 und "Fairness" 1862. Alle drei sind seit dem späten 19. Jahrhundert in stets zunehmendem Gebrauch. Nach fast 300 Jahren Gebrauch empfindet kein Deutscher das Wort "fair" und seine Ableitungen mehr als fremd.

Answer 7

My guessings to this:

Downvote, only one of many words we picked and integrated in our language. But i think it is more common in the internet.

It wasn't me = Reference to "Shaggy = It wasn't me"

geliked = gefällt geliken = never heard of this, but i guess you just mean "liken"

As you spoke from adaptations, i read more of the answers of other users,.. i felt over Kindergarten. :P

Little Ms Whoops asked:

(is there a German version of Facebook so anyone could check?)

Hey, there. Sure there is, we are allowed to used it. (not as harsh as it maybe sounds) I do not use facebook anymore, but as i remeber the german "Like"-button is called "Gefällt mir" ("I like"), correctly i should say "Das gefällt mir" ("I like this/that") or even better "Ich möchte zum Ausdruck bringen, dass ich Gefallen daran gefunden habe." ("I would like to say, that i like this/that")

Ok, please do not throw stones at me! I know this buttons would become a little bit.. uhm,. big?!

Hopefully i did not violate any rules. This is my very first post here. I will now or a bit later go and search for some rules. :)

Have a nice Day!

Answer 8

This question is highly dependent on personal opinions. For me, I think most of the English words used in German are unnecessary. The are some words that are a good extension to the German language, like fit (healthy) or stress. Other words are just waste of our language. You don't really need to use the English words, but it's trendy to use them. I personally hope that this trend abates at some point. We have a word for like (gefallen), also a word for downvote (abwerten).

It is true, that English has finer nuances than German, but mostly there is no need for that. Some people argument that the high usage of English words is because we don't have a word for it. My argument is why don't invent a new word? Why was there no problems for hundreds of years to invent new words and now we aren't able for that anymore? Also some existing words get replaced, which is kinda stupid.

To my ears, many English words in the German language sound terrible. Fair is okay because we can pronounce it in German. A good reason not to use gerecht isn't existing if you ask me.