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By starting with two sentences

Das merke ich auch so.

Ich arbeite auch bei hier.

It is somehow confused when to use das <verb> ich ... and when to shift to Ich <verb> ....

Can we say "Ich merke auch so" or "Das arbeite ich auch bei hier" for the examples above?

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  • You need to add the object, then it's fine: "Ich merke das auch so". In the second sentence there's a wrong preposition. You have to drop it: "Ich arbeite auch hier", "Hier arbeite ich auch" and "Hier arbeite auch ich" are fine. However, there's a difference in emphasis, though.
    – Em1
    Mar 24, 2015 at 19:30
  • Related: More on verb-positioning rules here and here on SE.
    – Stephie
    Mar 24, 2015 at 19:51
  • @Em1: Dann eliminier doch das "bei" - es gehört ja erkennbar nicht zum Inhalt der Frage und lockt nur Motten an, die das "bei" diskutieren, statt die intendierte Frage. Mar 24, 2015 at 23:27
  • 2
    @HubertSchölnast... however, the policy here is "one question at a time" so even if elaborating on mistakes in the question can be interesting the answers should focus on the question that OP actually wants to ask. The rest is for the comments. There are hundreds of questions here that had minor errors in them which were later removed... oh, jetzt hab' ich Englisch geschrieben. Sorry, das war nicht, um zu stänkern. Ich habe einfach nur nicht geguckt, wie ihr geschrieben habt.
    – Emanuel
    Mar 25, 2015 at 10:47
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    @HubertSchölnast: Ich sehe im Original kein Zitat und die Formatierung als solches macht die Sätze auch nicht zu Zitaten. Die Richtlinien bei SE sind alle Fehler auszumerzen, wenn man schon dabei ist - nicht manche stehen zu lassen. Man muss die Frage lesen und versuchen zu verstehen, was gemeint ist, und die Frage dann heilen ohne sinnentstellend tätig zu werden. Fehler zu verhandeln die nicht im Sinne des Fragers waren blähen die Diskussionen unnötig auf. Mar 25, 2015 at 15:31

3 Answers 3

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No you cannot say these sentences.

Reason: You are interested in the following verbs:

etwas merken = to realize something/to notice something
arbeiten = to work

As you can see, merken=to realize has an object: etwas=something. Grammatically, this object can be:

  • a substantive (group): „Ich merke die hohe Temperatur.“
  • a subclause: „Ich merke, das die Temperatur höher wird.“
  • a pronoun: „Ich merke das.“

But this object can't be nothing. You can't leave it out. It has to be there.

If you say:

Ich merke auch so.

you have left it out. That's not allowed. This sentence is missing a vital part.

As you can see as well, arbeiten=to work has no object. You can't simply add one.

Das arbeite ich auch hier.

What does the Das mean here? It seems to be an object for arbeiten, but arbeiten has no objects. This sentence has an additional part, that is not optional.

Word order: The word order is very flexible in German. There is only one strict rule for simple sentences such as your proposals:

  • The verb is in second position.

That means, you can change the word order of the other parts, but you can't leave or add non-optional parts.

The following sentences are possible:

Das merke ich auch so.
Ich merke das auch so.
Auch so merke ich das.

Ich arbeite auch hier. Auch hier arbeite ich.

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  • @Emanuel You're totally correct. Maybe Freudian misreader? I changed it.
    – Toscho
    Mar 27, 2015 at 11:08
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Das merke ich auch so.

This sentence is not really absolutely wrong, but suboptimal. I am not sure what you wanted to say.

Either you wanted to say »I recognize it anyway«. Then it would be better (optional, not mandatory) to replace »merken« by »bemerken«:

(a) Das bemerke ich auch so.

Or you wanted to say »I remember it anyway«. In this case it would be better (here mandatory, not optional) to insert »mir«:

(b) Das merke ich mir auch so.

In both cases »auch so« has the meaning: »without additional help«. I will omit this two words for my further analysis.

a
Lets have a look on

Das bemerke ich.

This is a correct and complete German sentence. It has almost the same meaning as this sentence:

Ich bemerke das.

The difference is just the word-order, and the fact what you want to emphasize. If you want to emphasize that it is you who recognizes something, then you say »Ich bemerke das«. If you want to emphasize that it is »das« (it) that is recognized (accidentally by you), then you say »Das bemerke ich«.

You must know, that in German the word-order in sentences is much more flexible than in English. In »Das bemerke ich« you have the order Object-Verb-Subject (OVS). In »Ich bemerke das« the order is Subject-Verb-Object (SVO).

Both orders are allowed, and since »ich« can not be the object (because »ich« is for sure in nominative case, but an object never can be nominative), it is in both orders clear what is the subject and what is the object.

b
Now let analyze

Das merke ich mir.

First of all you must learn, that »merken« in the meaning of »remember« is always reflexiv (which is not true for the english »remember«). So you always must add »mir«, »dir«, »sich«, »uns« or »euch«. And it is transitiv. So must say what you are remembering (here: das (in english: it).

But here too you can change the word-order without changing the meaning:

Ich merke mir das.

In both cases »das« is the Object that is been remembered. »Ich« is the subject (The entity that performs the act of remembering). And »mir« is the Dativ-Oject that belongs to »ich« and is necessary because merken is reflexiv.

If a verb is reflexiv and both objects stand behind the verb (like in »Ich merke mir das«), then the reflexiv-dativ-object must be placed on the 1st position and the transitiv-akusative-object comes as second. This means, that »Ich merke das wir« is wrong.


Ich arbeite auch bei hier.

This sentence is definitely wrong. The word »auch« is in english »also«. I omit it for a moment. (I am working with »Ich arbeite bei hier.«)

There are two possible ways to correct the sentence :

(a) Ich arbeite hier. (without bei) (I work here.)
(b) Ich arbeite bei diesem Unternehmen. (hier is replaced by a dative-object that represents something where people can work) (I work at this company)

Here »ich« is the subject (the entity that is working) and both »hier« and »bei diesem Unternehmen« are objects, that tell you where the subject is working.

But as said before: German has a much more flexible word-order than Englisch, so you can do the same thing as before: Let subject and object change places:

Hier arbeite ich.
Bei diesem Unternehmen arbeite ich.

Both sentences are correct and complete German sentences with the word-order OVS, and both sentences have the same meaning as their SVO-counterparts. (Only the focus of emphasis differs. It is always on the first part of the sentence.)

What about the word auch?

When you add »auch« (english also or too) to the sentence, it depends on the word-order what meaning you get. (In the next examples you always can replace »hier« by »bei diesem Unternehmen«):

1) Auch ich arbeite hier. = It's also me who is working here.
2) Ich arbeite auch hier. = I also work here. (auch/also might refer as well to the verb as to the object)
3) Ich arbeite hier auch. (correct, but not very common) = I also work here.
4) Auch hier arbeite ich. = I also work here. (auch/also only referes to the object, not to the verb)
5) Hier arbeite auch ich. = Also me is working here.
6) Hier arbeite ich auch. = Same meaning as in 2.

Add-on for 2)

Das ist meine Wohnung. Ich wohne hier. Ich arbeite auch hier.
This is my apartment. I live here. I also work here.

(auch/also referes to the verb)

Ich habe zwei Arbeitsplätze. Ich arbeite die meiste Zeit in Graz. Ich arbeite auch hier.
I have two working places. Most of the time I work in Graz. I also work here.

(auch/also referes to the object)

Explanation for 4)
This sentence has the same meaning as in the example starting with »Ich habe zwei Arbeitsplätze«. I can not mean the same as in »Das ist meine Wohnung«.

Explanation for 5)
Many other people are working here. I am one of them.

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    „Ich habe einen Herzfrequenzmesser, damit erkenne ich, wenn ich mich beim Laufen stark verausgabe.“ „Das merke ich auch so.“ Seems perfectly fine to me.
    – Carsten S
    Mar 25, 2015 at 8:08
  • @CarstenSchultz: Yes, within a given context it is clear. But if you replace "merke" by "bemerke", then the sentence is unambiguously also without the context. This is what I wanted to express with "suboptimal". Mar 25, 2015 at 8:31
  • I find "das merke ich auch so" perfectly legit. What's ambiguous about it? Throwing "bemerken" and sich merken" in here is totally unnecessary detour from the topic. OP has two problems... 1) doesn't realize what a direct object is 2) doesn't know about German sentence structure... the answer should focus on that without getting hung up on specific examples.
    – Emanuel
    Mar 25, 2015 at 10:44
1

Also zunächst kann man nicht sagen

  • Ich arbeite auch bei hier.

Das "hier" musst du durch einen entsprechenden Namen (Firma) ersetzen. Alternativ: "Ich arbeite auch hier."

Das "ich" kann sowohl vor dem Verb als auch danach stehen. Normalerweise steht es vor dem Verb. Steht es danach, dann möchte man etwas besonders betonen.

  • Ich arbeite bei dem Unternehmen.
  • Bei diesem Unternehmen arbeite ich auch.
  • Ich merke das sofort.
  • Normalerweise merke ich das sofort.
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  • Die Antwort wäre vermutlich noch hilfreicher für den OP, wenn auch erklärt würde, dass "das" hier als direktes Objekt für das Verb fungiert (bzw. als Platzhalter für ein solches) und somit nicht einfach eingefügt/weggelassen werden kann. Mar 24, 2015 at 15:45
  • I don't think this answer is helpful because OP seems to not have enough knowledge about German to understand it.
    – Emanuel
    Mar 25, 2015 at 10:35

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