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I am trying to summarise word order in sentences of different tenses and moods using the following table:

+-----------------+-----------+--------+--------------+---------------+-----------+
|                 |                           Mood                                |
+-----------------+-----------+--------+--------------+---------------+-----------+
| Tense           | Indikativ | Passiv | Konjunktiv I | Konjunktiv II | Imperativ |
+-----------------+-----------+--------+--------------+---------------+-----------+
| Präsens         |           |        |              |               |           |
| Präteritum      |           |        |              |               |           |
| Perfekt         |           |        |              |               |           |
| Plusquamperfekt |           |        |              |               |           |
| Futur I         |           |        |              |               |           |
| Futur II        |           |        |              |               |           |
+-----------------+-----------+--------+--------------+---------------+-----------+ 

(NOTE: I'm neglecting combined Passive and Konjunktiv II constructs)

And in particular for Futur II (Future Perfect) with modal verbs, which I cannot find much help on.

This is what I think it should be for:

Modal: müssen (to have to / must)
Verb: sehen (to see)

+----------------+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+------------------------------------+------------------------------------+
|                |                                                                                 Mood                                                                       |
+----------------+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+------------------------------------+------------------------------------+
| Tense          | Indikativ                        | Passiv                                        | Konjunktiv I                       | Konjunktiv II                      |
+----------------+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+------------------------------------+------------------------------------+
| Futur II       | du wirst es gesehen haben müssen | du wirst von ihm** gesehen worden sein müssen | du werdest es gesehen haben müssen | du würdest es gesehen haben müssen |
|                |                                  |                                               |                                    |                                    |
| Future Perfect | you will have to have seen it*   | you will have to have been seen by it         | "you will have to have seen it"    | you would have to have seen it     |
+----------------+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+------------------------------------+------------------------------------+

NOTE: I've used: "(Indikativ)", for the English equivalent of Konjunktiv I because English doesn't really have a fully formed equivalent.

(**I believe this is the correct way to have the subject of the verb in a passive sentence.)

*I believe this is the correct English equivalent but I also have these two additional forms floating around:

(1) you will have to have seen it (in table)

(2) you will have had to have seen it
(3) you will have had to see it

Questions:

Q1) Do you agree with the German in the table?
Q2) Do you agree with the English translation (particularly Future Perfect Indikativ)?
Q3) What is the equivalent of (2) and (3) in German?

Thank you!

============================================================
Update
Updated table from replies to:
Q1) Futur II row (this website as commented by @Al.G.)
Q2) Future Perfect row ("you will have had to see it" as answered by @dirkt)

+----------------+--------------------------------+----------------------------------------------+----------------------------------+----------------------------------+
|                |                                                                             Mood                                                                    |
+----------------+--------------------------------+----------------------------------------------+----------------------------------+----------------------------------+
| Tense          | Indikativ                      | Passiv                                       | Konjunktiv I                     | Konjunktiv II                    |
+----------------+--------------------------------+----------------------------------------------+----------------------------------+----------------------------------+
| Futur II       | du wirst es haben sehen müssen | du wirst von ihm haben gesehen werden müssen | du werdest es haben sehen müssen | du würdest es haben sehen müssen |
|                |                                |                                              |                                  |                                  |
| Future Perfect | you will have had to see it    | you will have to have been seen by it        | "you will have to have seen it"  | you would have to have seen it   |
+----------------+--------------------------------+----------------------------------------------+----------------------------------+----------------------------------+

closed as too broad by boaten, Jan, Hubert Schölnast, Medi1Saif, Iris Jan 4 '16 at 9:45

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0

The word order rules are exactly the same for different tenses and moods:

Basic rule: Infinitives and participles stack at the end in reverse order.

So a table for these is a bit pointless, except as an exercise.

However, for some modal verbs there's a special rule:

The past participle of these modal verbs is replaced with the Ersatzinfinitiv, and then it's placed in last position in the sentence.

That's why instead of "du wirst ... gemusst haben" the correct form is "du wirst ... haben müssen". But this is not restricted to Futur II, it will show up in the other tenses, as well.

As for the translation, tenses and moods are used differently in German and English, so you have to say what kind of equivalent you are looking for. On the one hand, you can conjugate English verbs to the same mood and tense (but this won't help you understand the German mood and tense). On the other hand, for a concrete example, you can try to find the English form that would be used in a translation, but this varies according to context and intent (and sometimes you have to make a choice).

The future perfect indicative of "you have to see it" is "you will have had to see it" (the simple future is "you will have to see it"), because it's "have" that is conjugated. If you want to conjugate "to see" to "to have seen" as well, you change "gesehen" to "gesehen gehabt", and the corresponding German forms are

you will have to have seen it = du wist es gesehen gehabt müssen

you will have had to have seen it = du wist es gesehen gehabt haben müssen

As I said, these are just formal equivalents, and I don't think anyone will actually be tempted to use these forms. :-)

It also might have been easier to do this exercise with "can" instead of "must", then you don't have to replace it with "have to" in English.

Note: While "du werdest" is technically correct, it's used so rarely in practice that I personally would never use it, and replace it with a different tense/mood instead. The third person ("er werde") is more commonly used.

  • I appreciate that these sorts of sentences are more of a theoretical construct and the website mentioned by Al.G. (in the comment on the question) suggests alternative forms. I also didn't realise that when modal verbs are used without additional verbs they undergo the same reshuffling "du wirst ... gemusst haben" -> "du wirst ... haben müssen". Thanks for giving the corresponding German sentences I wasn't sure if those constructs were technically allowed... even if never used. – Haydon Jan 1 '16 at 14:42
  • @Haydon: Well, the Ersatzinfinitiv applies to modal verbs (which always need an additional verb in the infinitive) in complex tenses that use the participle, so in that sense I don't really understand your "without additional verbs" . In "du wirst ... gemusst haben", the dependent verb with objects and all the other stuff of course goes into the ellipsis. – dirkt Jan 2 '16 at 9:22
  • It's possible to use modal verbs as "ordinary" verbs e.g. "Du hast das gemusst". So what you're saying is that Ersatzinfinitiv applies to modal verbs only when they are being used as modal verbs. – Haydon Jan 2 '16 at 13:14
  • @Haydon: Yes, it only applies to modal verbs used as modal verbs, not to modal verbs used as full verbs (because then they are no longer modal words in the original sense, so I thought that was obvious). – dirkt Jan 3 '16 at 15:43
  • It was just to check that I fully understood you. Thank you – Haydon Jan 7 '16 at 20:36

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