20

Here is a dictionary example:

Bis Sonntag bleibt das Wetter schön.

I am wondering whether the weather on Sunday will be fine or not? That is, whether the day of Sunday is included in or excluded from the time duration "bis Sonntag"?

  • You can think of it like it. When you say, since 2012 (seit 2012) have you ever thought whether 2012 is included or not? The same applies for bis as well. – Ad Infinitum Mar 17 '17 at 11:00
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    When I use this sentence, I mean to indicate that I assume the weather to be changing on Sunday, maybe in the morning, may be in the afternoon, that cannot yet be said. – René Nyffenegger Mar 17 '17 at 19:33
  • As a native speaker, I would say that Sunday is included. From my experience this is different in Dutch, where "tot zondag" means that Sunday is not included, unless you say "tot en met zondag". Albeit a very closely related language to German, this has sometimes lead to confusions between German and Dutch coworkers in my former company. – elzell Mar 19 '17 at 7:26
30

The sentence doesn't say, probably because people don't care as weather forecasts tend to be wrong anyhow ;)

Like in most languages, bis in German expresses a time extent to a certain point in time. Because "Sonntag" has an extent of its own, this cannot be precise.

If you want to be precise, add the precision using "einschließlich" or (in cases) "ausschließlich", or adjust your point in time more precisely like "Sonntag, 12 Uhr"

Das Wetter soll bis einschließlich Sonntag schön bleiben (Saying you explicitly want Sunday included)

Ich habe das Auto bis Montag, 12:00 Uhr gemietet

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  • 9
    I'd like to add that, even though it's formerly unprecise, there is an intuitive understanding to it. In my experience, a native german speaker would assume that sunday is included in that statement. I would say this goes in general for "bis" used with a weekday. There is however no general rule for an unprecisely used "bis". – André Stannek Mar 17 '17 at 14:03
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    As a native German speaker, I agree with André, I would assume (at least a part of) Sunday is included. – Silverclaw Mar 17 '17 at 14:05
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    Agree with you all, but "part of Sunday" could be, strictly speaking, the first second after midnight. Without saying how long that is, you cannot plan your Sunday afternoon picknick or your evening barbecue. And that's true for all languages. – tofro Mar 17 '17 at 14:12
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    In Switzerland, we say "bis und mit" rather than "bis einschliesslich". – meriton Mar 17 '17 at 22:03
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    This answer is patent nonsense No it isn't. Whenever we want to clarify a possibly dubious statement we do clarify: Ich bleibe bis einschließlich Sonntag und reise Montag früh ab. – TaW Mar 18 '17 at 11:06
11

It is inclusive, until and including Sunday.

See, for instance, https://www.hofer.at/de/infos-und-services/hofer-a-z/o/oeffnungszeiten/

Öffnungszeiten Die Hauptöffnungszeiten der Hofer-Filialen sind

Montag bis Freitag, 07.40 bis 20.00 Uhr
Samstag, 07.40 bis 18.00 Uhr.

It is not very likely that the shop is open Monday until Thursday inclusive, then closed on Friday and open again on Saturday morning, but search for others to conform this.

This shows the general usage of "bis" with week days

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  • 1
    Please explain the reasoning behind this statement. – DarkDust Mar 17 '17 at 12:01
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    The linked question refers to "bis auf", which has a slightly different meaning than just "bis". Also, the (correct) answer to that question is "contextual", not "inclusive". – DevSolar Mar 17 '17 at 12:58
  • I agree, and will remove the link. Sorry – Mawg says reinstate Monica Mar 17 '17 at 12:59
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    This doesn't answer the question. The schedule (and context!) determines that Friday is included. – c.p. Mar 18 '17 at 21:55
  • »Keine Ausreden, bis Mittwoch will ich das Geld haben!« Does this mean »am Mittwoch will ich es haben, bis spätestens Dienstag musst du es bringen«? I think so. It's a deadline mentioned by @Nobody below. – Pollitzer Mar 19 '17 at 8:50
4

I am a native speaker of German. I would expect the weather could change worse during Sunday. But the weather change may be early or late during Sunday.

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3

Saying

Bis Sonntag bleibt das Wetter schön.

is usually meant and understood as including sunday, I agree with @Mawg.

But this cannot be generalized. If we say

Bis Ostern muss das fertig sein.

or

Bis Weihnachten räumst du dein Zimmer auf!

Easter and Christmas are excluded.

A [device repair] craftsman saying

Bis Freitag ist das gemacht!

is another sample for exclusion (meaning: You can pick up your device on friday).

Result

  • end of time span has no additional meaning: usage »bis + day/event« is normally meant as »day/event included«
  • end of time span is loaded with special importance [deadline] and may trigger [unwelcome] consequences: usage »bis + day/event« is normally meant as »day/event excluded«

(Result with helpful comment from @Nobody below)

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    In general, for deadlines it errs more on the side of exclusive. For time tables, inclusive. Other example "Bis Freitag!" meaning "See you on Friday!" where it's inclusive – Nobody Mar 18 '17 at 22:56
2

This is actually unclear.

For some contexts like opening hours (in Mawag's answer) it clearly is inclusive.

For the weather forecast I would expext the weather to change at some time on Sunday..

But an example like:

Fritz bleibt bis Sonntag.

..clearly means he will stay until and leave on Sunday.

Otoh

Ich bleibe bis einschließlich Sonntag

implies the I will leave on Moday.

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-1

I'm german (you can see it on my grammer faults I tried to correct with google) and it's definitely including sunday. HOWEVER: As it's about weather you can say that friday and saturday it will be nice but on sunday there will be rain. On most other sentences what I said at first would be true, but on a weather forecast you can't be sure. I think it would be the same in the english version. Okay, so then I will drink some beer, eat some Würstchen with Sauerkraut and read "Mein Kampf" like every german does on sundays. HTH.

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  • Kann es bei der Frage nach dem Wort "bis" darum gehen, ob das Wetter wirklich so wird? Das impliziert ja, dass Wetterberichte bis zum vorletzten Tag immer stimmen. Offensichtlich geht es darum, für welche Zeit die Aussage Gültigkeit beansprucht, nicht darum, ob sie wahr oder falsch ist. – user unknown Mar 19 '17 at 11:07

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