Dasselbe vs. das Gleiche, what's the difference?

Question

How should one best interpret the difference between "dasselbe" and "das Gleiche" ? When should one use one or the other?

Is it correct that "dasselbe" is appropriate for concrete things, and "das Gleiche" is for the abstract idea? Is there much more to it?

I have trouble for instance, drawing the line between phrases like:

"Wir wollten alle das Gleiche."

and

"Er sagt in jeder Vorlesung dasselbe."

both of which are examples from my dictionary (so I assume they are correct) and both of which seem to refer to the same (dasselbe/das Gleiche??) thing...

Your help is appreciated!

Answer 1

There is a difference:

Ich trage das gleiche Kleid wie Maria.

Maria and I are physically wearing two different dresses, but they are the same kind and design.

Ich trage dasselbe Kleid, das ich bei meinem Geburtstag anhatte.

I am wearing the same dress. It's physically the same item.

"Das gleiche" is "the same", with regards to its qualities.

"Dasselbe" is physically the same item.

Answer 2

"Dasselbe" is used when you're referring to the exact same object, whereas "das Gleiche" is only used if there are multiple different objects of identical form or nature.

When it comes to more abstract terms like in your first example, I assume it would be okay to use "dasselbe" as well as "das Gleiche", but not if it refers to material objects.

Answer 3

To remember the difference between "das Gleiche" und "dasselbe", you could use the german saying

Sie gleichen sich wie ein Ei dem anderen

Two eggs look identically, so "das Gleiche" means "looks like but is not the same". As a consequence, "dasselbe" means "is the same instance of an item".

Answer 4

I sometimes think the Java programming language was created by Germans, because it makes the exact same distinction as the German language:

todaysLunch.equals(yesterdaysLunch) =~ Es gibt heute zum Mitagessen schon wieder das gleiche wie gestern

Translation: two Objects are semantically or by other (defined or implicit) rules equivalent, without actually being physically the same Object.

thisFly==theFlyThatsBeenBotheringMeAllDay =~ Das ist die selbe Fliege, die mich schon den ganzen Tag nervt.

Translation: two different ways of referring to the same physical Entity.

Obviously this distinction only makes sense for entities that have some kind of physical manifestation.

Answer 5

Das Gleiche

means equality (instance of the same abstract class)

dasselbe

means identity in a mathematical sense.

Practical usage in German is not 100% correct and consistent.
Even Germans have difficulties here and I'm forced to remember the rules because my intuition is uncertain.

Answer 6

The difference between the two for tangible objects is mostly straightforward and has been addressed by the other answers. Briefly, use dasselbe for literally identical objects and das Gleiche for objects which are only very similar.

For abstract concepts, the main problem is that for any two concepts which are somewhat similar but not identical (and thus would only be gleich at first glance), there always exists a more abstract concept which contains both of these concepts and would thus justify using dasselbe for them. For example, two different points of view on the same thing would be:

Hans befürchtet, dass er im Regen nass wird.
Paul befürchtet, dass er im Regen nass wird.
Hans und Paul befürchten das Gleiche.

Hans befürchtet, im Regen nass zu werden.
Paul befürchtet, im Regen nass zu werden.
Hans und Paul befürchten dasselbe.

In the first point of view, the things the two are afraid of are [Hans wird im Regen nass] and [Paul wird im Regen nass] and thus slightly different. In the second point of view, both are afraid of [nass Werden im Regen] and thus of the identical abstract thing.

This problem also exists the other way round: If you are referring to one abstract concept in two cases (and thus would use dasselbe at first glance), there often exist two similar but not identical less abstract concepts for each of the cases which you could be referring to as well (and thus would justify using only das Gleiche). For example, take the above example the other way round.

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To make things even more confusing, there exists a grey area between abstract and concrete. For example when ordering meals in a restaurant:

Hans: Ich hätte gerne die Heringspizza.
Paul: Ich hätte gerne dasselbe / das Gleiche.

The arguably predominant interpretation here is that dasselbe is only correct if Paul and Hans really want to share one pizza. However, one can also hold the point of view that they are not referring to the concrete pizza they will be having but to the abstract item on the menu and thus dasselbe would also be appropriate if they are not sharing a pizza.

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Due to the above you can usually find a justification for either choice in many situations and most people won’t be confused no matter what you choose.

However, in the rare case, that you cannot find two less abstract entities to refer to, I would prefer dasselbe:

Wir gehen in dieselbe Klasse.

Also, in cases where there are two predominant levels of congruence for the abstract entities you are referring to, I suggest using dasselbe for the higher level of congruence. To take one of your examples:

Er sagt in jeder Vorlesung dasselbe.
Er sagt in jeder Vorlesung das Gleiche.

I would use das Gleiche if he is saying the same thing contentwise but not with the same words, e.g. “alle Studenten sind doof” in one lecture and “alle Studenten sind dämlich” in another one. Only, if he is using the very same words in every lecture, I would use dasselbe.