Timeline for Were ü and y pronounced as ie at the time of Beethoven?
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8 events
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| Sep 22, 2017 at 19:45 | comment | added | sgf | @tofro I also don't see how Schiller would have pronounced the ü in Brüder differently from the y in Elysium. I should think that in any dialect that says /brider/, /elisium/ would also be correct. | |
| Sep 22, 2017 at 19:43 | comment | added | sgf | Honestly it depends on the poet. Goethe's case is pretty much determined by rhyming neige abd -reiche (also in the Wikipedia link) - he was content if it rhymed in his native dialect. I have no idea whether Schiller would rhyme according to whatever was considered Standard phonology at the time, but if I'm not completely mistaken, there was no consensus what should count as standard at the time anyways, and we can be pretty sure that Schiller would have sounded more like a Swabian reading his own poets than Swabian schoolchildren would now. | |
| Sep 22, 2017 at 19:23 | comment | added | mach | @tofro: Since the pronunciation is identical, it is a pure end rhyme by definition. But spelling might influence rhymes, or acquaintance with people who use Ü and Ö (at the time basically limited to Northern Germany and Switzerland). | |
| Sep 22, 2017 at 17:48 | comment | added | tofro | @mach I grew up with the same dialect as Schiller did, and pronunciation hasn't likely changed fundamentally since then. And no, "Höhn" and stehn" I would still consider a sloppy rhyme, even in dialect. Later Hölderlin (contemporary to Schiller, sharing the same dialect) poems are known to contain very few impure rhymes. I am pretty sure Schiller used (at least some of) them on purpose. | |
| Sep 22, 2017 at 17:42 | comment | added | mach | @tofro: Nope, Schiller, Goethe and other people from that time were not sloppy rhymers. They just used a very different pronunciation of standard German than the Northern one that is common nowadays. Common pronunciations at the time – Saxonian was considered to be the best pronunciation, and Meissen was similarly reknown for its pronunciation as Hannover is today – did not have Ü or Ö, but used I and E instead. | |
| Sep 22, 2017 at 17:32 | comment | added | tofro | I'm pretty sure Schiller would have known how to properly pronounce "Elysium" - He probably just didn't care for a 100% rhyme. I do agree with the "Brüder", though. The "Höhn" and "stehn" rhyme in "Die Glocke" is a sloppy rhyme as well which cannot be blamed on his dialect. | |
| Sep 22, 2017 at 16:44 | vote | accept | Ruslan | ||
| Sep 22, 2017 at 15:08 | history | answered | sgf | CC BY-SA 3.0 |